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I strongly prefer spaces, but I would rather use tabs than listen to colleagues whack away at their space bars all day. Like really? Come on guys and gals. I can setup my tabulations to appear like 2 spaces without having it to be two spaces, which would be 2 characters instead of just one, making all my files larger.

That applies to almost any IDE for the past 40 years. Kind of an interesting situation with Go. A Go user might not only program in Go though, and would indicate tabs. But for the purposes of this analysis they still have a set of answers either way for users who also said they use Go. I took a quick look at the data 30 minutes and found the following insights regarding Tabs vs. When you split the group into younger and older programmers not by age but by experience , into the ones with up to 10 years experience Group A: and the ones with more than 10 years Group B: you can see the following:.

As Programmers with up to ten years are not only novice programmers, but the ones with a more modern education, this leads me to the conclusion, that it is the result of a modern programming style which favors tabs. So my conclusion is that space users probably earn more money as they have more experience, but the trend shows that the new generation tends to favor tabs and that there is already a majority of users who use tabs. You say that space users earn more money as they have more experience, but the chart shows that developers with the same experience makes different amount of money depending on their tabs spaces preferences.

You are correct, my conclusion is wrong as I did not mean that they earn more money right now, but that they will earn more money in the future as there will be more tab users with more experience and right now the majority of tab users has less experience. So my hypothesis is that tab users will not switch their style when they gain experience but that they will stick with their style and that their group will mature over time and make more money by then.

I will correct that. I have about 9 years of coding and I am a tabber. My father has been coding for almost 40 years and he is a spacer. You hear him all day… bang bang bang bang on the space bar. I put my money on your hypothesis. Did read, and I recognize the author recognizes that as well as did statistical effort to explore the dat.

Still funny. Spaces is the right answer, no matter what. Most languages are multy-platform. Spaces looks same on any platform and this is not the case for tabs. Just accept it. With spaces though you have different developers who use different numbers for each level of indentation. With tabs one tab is always one level of indentation. The title of this blog is in no way shape or form clickbait. Click bait would be:.

Learn how he increased his salary with this one little trick! This is a brilliant study idea, but you should modify your result to only apply to the sampled. I would have expected better from stackoverflow.

There is no reason given in the article to explain why. Correlation is not equal to Causation. Yes, they even say that in their post. They have no idea why it is, it just is. It says Correlation is not Causation in the conclusion. Add a new question on to the survey for next year asking if developers limit character length of their lines to 80 characters. Then see if this correlates with space-use.

They are to be exiled to a horrific world where the only language available is PHP and the only editor is ed. If it were worse than PHP, they might give up. PHP is just barely viable enough to entice them to keep going, thus prolonging their suffering.

Both is not the same as mixed. Using both tabs and spaces is not the same: I use tabs for some languages, and spaces for others. I never mix the two in a single document. At Cratejoy, we use spaces in Python and tabs for Javascript and Less but we never mix tabs and spaces in a file. I use both tabs and spaces, because I use tabs for some programming languages, and spaces for other languages — but I never mix them: never both in the same document. Mixing tabs and spaces implies using tabs and spaces within the same document and indeed, sometimes on the same line.

I like think most people reading this would see it the opposite way and as a great example of meaningless correlation between what comes down to stylistic preferences in most cases. It is my opinion that the title is the opinion. The data sample is flawed in that his sample was chosen in a way that has a misleading trend that fits the title of the article to make it look like the correlation is the cause, when the statistic says more about his sampling techniques than it does about who gets paid more.

For example, only people who knew about this survey or visited a certain site or subset of sites were surveyed. Er, what sampling techniques are you referring to, exactly? The sample is the set of people who took the Stack Overflow survey and answered that question. More experienced programmers: 1. The linear regression included both programmer experience and tabs vs spaces, so the effect exists even beyond programming experience.

So while anyone who prefers spaces to tabs can take code with tabs and instantly convert it to spaces, or make the tab distance equal to two or four, or whatever spaces for readability with a single keypress, someone who prefers two spaces per indent level will have a harder time making code with four spaces per indent level readable to him or her. Because you are an experienced programmer, you know how to set your IDE to do these tricks, but an inexperienced programmer does not or does not value doing so.

The article makes no claims about the technical merits of tabs vs spaces. It just points out the existence of a correlation. I used to be a strong tab supporter. Want 4 spaces, 6, 8 spaces? Then I joined teams where the 2 were being mixed all over the place. It took me 5 years to realize the importance of this. Are you saying you literally press the space bar for indentation?

Haha, of course not. Some using actual tabs, others using spaces. A tab key gets converted to 4 spaces. So you get space characters from tab keys but that also behave like tabs on backspaces too. This is especially nice for python, my go-to money maker. If you want tabs to look like 4 spaces, you can set that. If 2, you can set that as well. He discovered that was a problem in files that mixed tabs and spaces because how your IDE renders tabs might differ from how many spaces someone inserted.

If everybody uses spaces and not tab characters, the file will render the same for everyone. My hypothesis: Somebody who touts their use of spaces is more likely to exaggerate their reported income. It sounds pretentious. Like, meanwhile, children are dying in africa, stop using your computer and do something about it. If your job is not in health, teaching or food making, you are useless, so you should stop wasting your time. Mah gawd you guys, who cares?

If we put this kind of scrutiny on the SO data scientists, imagine what kind of scrutiny we could put on what YOU do all day, such as…. The majority of the devs on the frontier of new languages, and language research, use an editor like vim. To be sure. In 30 years, vi will 71 years old, and vim will be 55 years old. All of us are hoping for better, more functional tools in that timeframe. Everything else happens in another window at a shell prompt.

When I need to make anything else more efficient, I update my command-line programs. Well, actually it depends on what you value. If you want something feature rich, an IDE might be objectively better. If you just want to edit a few lines of source code, the small editor which is just an editor might be objectively better.

Yeah right — like we need to memorize a zillion keyboard shortcuts to do the most obvious stuff!! Keeping up with tech is tough as it is, we need our memory for more important stuff. I suggest the ones using spaces might be largely the ones who believe they are better and have higher standards when negotiating a salary.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Developers who cannot extrapolate full solutions from limited information. Funny, a few days ago, I would have found unbelievable that someone would actually think of tabs as the tab key. It also bends my mind that some people fail to understand that the ambiguity inherent in using tab characters is the very reason why space characters are strongly preferred by anyone capable of thinking logically.

That ambiguity is a feature of tabs, not a bug. Those of us that like compact code with two space indentation can coexist peacefully with our coworkers that use 4 space tabs. As long as tab characters are in the code it is just a editor setting and both groups can be happy. Even that one weirdo that prefers 8 spaces per tab can do his thing without bothering the rest of us. Fixed it from average to median.

Though the argument still stands either way. The volume of low salary developers who cannot make the distinction brings down the median. Salary aside, I was a tabber for decades. And it was the predominant coding standard at many of my employers and clients. Then one day my friend and colleague Doug Y. That tiny little piece of wisdom was my Road to Damascus moment.

There is a bit of throwback in it. Tabs are faster to type, and IDE replacement is relatively new. Tabs are also a single character, and code files not having to count bytes is also relatively new. There is a lot of lag between the professional world moving past a paradigm, the educational world adopting that change, and the post-change students getting into the workforce. How much relative? VB6 IDE is even smart enough to understand where the level of indentation ends and add only the correct amount of spaces….

I say this from experience both as a student coming out with 30 year out-of-date habits that I had to get rid of, and having trained several recent grads out of their school-taught habits that were based on green-screen limitations.

But we are talking about the present and in the present, nobody is required to hit the spacebar 4 times for each indentation level. Even if you are working with such an old language because you can use other editors instead of those IDEs.

Contrary to popular belief, you can learn about obsolete things. My high school was teaching us to use computers on green screen terminals in the late 90s. I also worked as an adjunct professor for a while, and as part of the IT staff for a college, and with IT professors from 5 other universities. As for the present, no one is sitting over your shoulder telling you to change your typing habits. Yes, nobody needs to be over your shoulder telling you to change your typing habits, because it is not needed anymore.

Programmers that get paid more are more likely to be required to use spaces. I have never worked at a large company with a coding standard that requires tabs over spaces. I have used tabs only during the course of my graduation where everything works and looks good. The real world requires you to use spaces.

People using tabs work at larger companies and therefore make more money. And of course that was a typo…. Company size seems to have been controlled for though. So, developers who know the difference and care about the NEXT reader of their code use spaces to preserve their formatting across tabstop changes.

Most people in office environments work with a mandated IDE, eliminating the tabstop change question. That said, companies that allow diverse environments or working from personal equipment might pay more but require spaces for that reason.

This is all self-reported, yes? What if the conclusion is spaces developers are just inflating their salaries by 8. I think the survey could have been poorly developed. Those in the beginning of their careers might not understand or even know that the IDE can change the tab key output to spaces, which could explain the lower salary.

They tend to only do what they are told. My theory is that creative people tend to earn more and changing the default configurations could have correlation in this data. Or they could know what the IDE configuration is, but assume the question is about which key they press.

Also, there is no technical difference between using the key tab or the key space making it irrelevant for a survey, while there are technical differences between the character tab and the character space such as filesize and indentation of lines of code written in more than one actual text line or languages without a clear indentation pattern like SQL.

The only difference the actual character makes is in display across multiple IDE configurations. And that actually benefits tabs unless someone goes along typing spaces sort of like someone shoving fixed-width objects in the midst of a variable width HTML page. It is treated as a factor in the present and that is what matters for a survey about the present. Like I have nothing better to do all day long than correcting code that starts in columns that are not multiples of 4….

Most IDEs nowadays will have an automatic document formatter. And for those of us not using IDEs — anyone with any technical competence can run a CL linter, autoformater, or bang out our own script in a few minutes to address the issue permanently.

Nutarama, must be a really old language, then. I had this issue in the past. My first code that went on to be compiled and executed with a runtime error was FORTRAN written on paper, which then went to card punchers, who created the card stack, which was then fed into the specialized reader. For maybe 30 lines of code probably less — it was a very long time ago it then produced several tens of printed pages, on special paper used by dot matrix printers.

Sometimes its actually better to use vim or emacs, even if you have to write your own extensions to replace missing IDE functionality. To a large extent, those are IDE configuration issues. Some people must do a lot of their work on a remote server, and use vim, emacs, or similar over the terminal.

Others are using less popular languages for which the best working environment is vim or emacs. There may be no IDE, or it may be under developed. Eventually these languages may get high quality IDE support, but until then…. I forced myself to learn eclipse and now intelliJ. Also, you can consider the long term benefit of the time invested mastering various tools. Languages and IDEs come in and out of fashion, and sometimes evolve quickly.

Teachers who emphasize good coding style are more likely to emphasize the use of particular spacing and thus passively suggest using spaces instead of tabs than teachers who do not emphasize good coding style. Students who had the former teachers will generally have better style, apart from space usage, than students who had the latter teachers.

Also, students who had the former teachers are more likely to use spaces than students who had the latter teachers. Students with better style regardless of space usage will earn higher salaries, so a correlation between space usage and salary will appear. Personally, good coding style was a major emphasis in my first computer science Java class. We were taught to use four spaces to indent each line. I started off using spaces, but later switched to tabs.

If I need to submit code with spaces, I will write the code with tabs and then Replace All tabs with four or two or however many space characters and increase the file size , or configure my IDE to do this automatically. Other than space usage, I am very persistent on style and will fix the style of code I receive before I read or compile it.

Look at hiring habits, though. You might be right that it is based on the institution, though. Graduates from well recognized universities or those with good placement programs have a better average salary than others, regardless of the quality of the particular program. They just want the code to be delivered because the client is waiting for it. My hypothesis: The element of tradition in education plays a role, i.

Call it genealogy of mentors. But how many of those space devs are required to use spaces because of code style guides at their respective companies? Regardless of whether or not they choose to use spaces on their own.

Code in Go is autoformatted with tabs by convention, and a large majority of open-source golang code is autoformatted with tabs this way. Or only very few people answered go and spaces, and so the sample size in that specific case is small. I assume language choice was a multi-select option? Might be interesting to correlate of languages selected rather than treat each individually. And little Space users. Dude did you even read the article?

Years of coding does not necessarily track perfectly with age e. That would still rest on the assumption that older developers did not have the tab character available to them. It being part of the original ASCII set, which goes back to the s, so this is so unlikely as to not be worth mentioning. The best paying companies usually mandate that you should use spaces.

The whole spaces and earnings thing is one giant fallacy from the ground up, mixing up the cause and the effect. IME, they mandate it because furniture police. They could as easily mandate using tabs exclusively for indent — a style checker can warn of mixes on commit. More often than not, very senior developers prefer tabs, not because it adds any stylistic or technical value, not at all because it saves a few bytes on disk, but simply because it makes sense.

In a given editor, a tab has always exactly the same width. It happens to me repeatedly that upon code reorganization the IDE mixes up indentation, and unless I want my whole file reformatted like all javadoc comments messed up I need to fix this manually.

Using spaces for indentation is simply a dogma that has caught on among enterprise developers. Of course, mixing tabs and spaces is plain stupid, but if tabs for indent proponents can do the mix, so can spaces for indent proponents do it. Read the comments a bit more. Many people are actually making that assumption, very seriously.

The IDE does it automatically for you. This is indeed talking about typed spaces. Adaptable tab size does not refer to your keyboard! Text editors can edit any text in the world, in any language, and you can control indentation of your text editor. Considering the comments here, the two of us may be demonstrating the divide. The benefit of space characters is that tab characters adapting to the display preferences of the individual programmer suddenly look weird when one idiot presses the space character a bunch of times instead of using tab.

In an exemplification of the eminent flexibility of tabs, this is easily resolved with a. Then you have to use mixed tabs and spaces, and you will only cause pain for any other developer who tries to edit your work.

I specifically set up my IDE to use spaces. It would be utterly braindead to hit the spacebar multiple times at the beginning of each line. But any modern IDE only requires you to do it once or tab once for each layer of indentation you want.

Gonzol, that is the reason why I think the survey may have been poorly developed. The whole point between tabs or spaces is the character and not the key pressed. Basically there are these two arguments:. Having varying lengths of tabbing seems like it would be harder to read. If ever something inside a pair of parenthesis needs to be broken into multiple lines, just break everything instead.

If you would need to break and there are no parenthesis yet, just add them. I prefer to use a brace style which does never need alignment on keywords identifiers. So if you need to break an argument list, everything gets on a new line, and then is just indented with tabs, no side effects.

If the style guide does not permit that, indent with tabs according to the current indentation level, and then use spaces to match the length of the non-tab characters in the previous line. CreateNewAddress t city, state, zipcode, t streetaddressline1, t streetaddressline2. Yes, that is two more lines, but the indentation is unambiguous.

Also non of the lines is even remotely approaching the length limit. For the other option, the additional indentation to match the parenthesis only with spaces. In front of the spaces all the tabs used on the parent line. So effectively:. CreateNewAddress city, state, zipcode, ttt ………………………………………………………streetaddressline1, ttt ………………………………………………………streetaddressline2. Everyone knows what their editor is outputting. Apparently not considering the number of people saying spaces are slower.

And I would expect people without that experience to not be pulling as high of a salary. People making that comment clearly believe the question has to do with what key is being struck, not what the IDE is producing. The slightly more hollow sound of the spacebar hit hard with the knuckle of a thumb several times in rapid succession is easy to tell apart from normal typing.

If your spacing is consistent which, frankly, it should be , then you can change between tabs and spaces arbitrarily with no significant effort. The problem of arcane legacy code is the changing coding conventions of the past developers, not whether they used spaces or tabs. It makes sense they would on average be paid less. This is true until you hit version control, where tabs and spaces are taken into account by default. Exactly this. Mixed tabs and spaces cause version control issues, and create non-obvious, and impolite indentation issues when multiple devs work on files that contain them.

In every IDE I use, shift-tab goes back an indentation level while backspace removes the previous character. What IDE are you using that overrides backspace to indention level? I have all manner of shortcuts.

The difference in salary here might correlate to developers who understand their tools, vs. Configure your editor right and there is no extra time. Also, spaces maintain consistent visual styling across development tools. Code and data are here, try it out! And, dare I say it? I am moderately sure that what one calls it makes no difference to how using tabs at various tabstops vs. Use an IDE that will display code formatted however you want it and save it formatted according to whatever code style convention is in place.

Or use a pre-commit hook to format it. Arguing over tabs vs. But then, if I fork it, and my editor changes the formatting, the merge will overwrite random bits of code all over. Depending on the editor used, tabs get expanded into 4 or 8 spaces typically. So, tab-indented source code often shows up with unintented indentation — really ugly.

I made pessimistic assumptions in order to demonstrate the robustness of your result, not to criticize it. Most people clicked it even knowing it is a clickbait and that is where you win. Good job. Maybe I was too harsh in using the word clickbait, but the thing is that it was an interesting marketing move to connect salary with some specific polemic topic.

But it is a smart way to promote the survey itself. Because it is assuming your typing habits could influence how much you earn. If you want to know the real reason behind this, you should isolate the money variable and start checking everything else. You tell me why relate money to a typing behaviour is logical. It is not logical. It is marketing.

The only logic applied here was that it is an obvious bait for people to click in the article and comment about it. And yes, I was caught by it hehehe. Because many people are just using tabs, and they are not aware of the fact that tabs can be composed from tab characters vs space characters. I expect groups 1, 2, 4 to answer tabs. Because of not knowledgeable people in group 4, since we can assume not having knowledge about an arbitrary topic statistically decreases the expected wage, tab answer will have a lower average wage.

No, tabs are composed of tabs. They are asking what is in your file. As chipoverclock:disqus remarked before me, tabs have to be rendered, spaces do not. This one time I beautifully formatted code in my IDE with tabs, which were the width of 4 spaces in my system. As soon as I uploaded it on gerrit, its ugliness was pointed out to me and I soon realised that because gerrit was rendering tabs as 8 spaces, none of my secondary indentation had any effect anymore.

Do not use tabs to separate pieces of code horizontally to a specific amount. I guess people who have abandoned tabs are the ones who were quicker to realise this than their counterparts in the same experience bracket. Just for the people reading this, he did not just say yes to a random stranger: I am not a troll, I am his girlfriend. Leading whitespace tabs, internal line whitespace spaces, this keeps your formatting and allows your editor to size the tabs how ever it is configured.

And is a complete PITA for anyone else to work on ever. Only do this if you live in a silo, and have no Github account. Not with an. Every project has its own requirements, this is just one of those. Some projects may use tabs and some projects spaces, being able to manage either is more important. If I had to choose it would be leading tabs, allowing display choice for each developer. If I have a multi-line comment to the right of two lines of code i.

Not to mention the PITA of changing your tab stops on all your different tools. Thou shall not have a multiline comment to the right of lines of code. Or stop all this commenting trend, let the code speak by itself in freedom and glory!

If you follow these rules, you will be able to: — use tabs or spaces and nobody would care — change tab size as you like, for better reading without beeaking indentation — convert tabs to spaces and viceversa without problems. Jokes apart, code should be formatted in such a way that it really would not matter even if you edited it with non-fixed size fonts. As for where they go, comments should go where they make the code most readable. Making readability a second priority to solving technical issues that arise because you want to use tabs instead of spaces is utterly misguided, IMHO.

Sincerely I think that someone that uses spaces because are more portable should comment in a portable way too. And usually the main thing driving them to this mistaken idea is their lack of experience. Well, have fun with that. At least there is no minus button here! I agree with you that there are no fixed rules and I totally agree with you that assembly does require this kind of commenting, and yes, no tabs there. For the remaining Peace and love. Tabs as leading white space only, all other alignment spaces.

Most editors allow you to set how wide a tab is, 2, 4, 8. Any thing else would be multiple lines with single line comments. Note that the tabs are not a fixed width themselves; with a tab stop at column 5, a tab character in column three is replaced by two spaces when rendered in a fixed font, whereas a tab character at column 2 is replaced by three spaces. And therein lies the issue. Consider two lines: Two tabs, two printing characters, six spaces, two printing characters Three tabs, two printing characters, two spaces, two printing characters.

With tab stops set at every fourth column, the second set of printing characters lines up on column With tab stops set at every second column, the second set of printing characters starts at column 13 on the first line and column 11 on the second line. In your example I see where adjusting tab width could misalign items, but your example is trying to align internal line items across two lines that have different leading whitespace indents.

This seems like arbitrary alignment and ignores the natural grouping that the indent suggests, where I believe only aligning items within their indent groups is reasonable to support. You could change the third tab on the second line to spaces, which in itself suggests it is being aligned to the first line, I do this sometimes, however, I can see an issue where tools that modify leading whitespace from tabs to spaces or spaces to tabs might modify those spaces as well if they happen to match the current tab width.

Are you saying that those apparently incompetent programmers who use tabs are all developing under notepad? He says straight out that code does not become better by using spaces nor worse by using tabs. I prefer spaces over tabs. Most editors convert the Tab to spaces, so developers basically indent pressing the Tab, but that just creates e.

No one is bashing the spacebar. So if I was asked what do I use — spaces or Tabs I would be confused, and I guess a lot of people did answer spaces because the end result is space indented but they do use tab to do it. You hit enter and it will go to the right level. I think any language that requires tabs is not part of the discussion. They reward the sellers who could sell a product that is still not finished and then make us do extra work because the product was already sold.

This is it. Anyone who knows their tools pretty quickly figures out how to make tab insert two spaces. Anyone who operates in a team pretty quickly figures out that tabs help other people to read their code, and cause fewer issues with source control. Yeah, but that knowledge is generally due to somebody pointing it out and then going looking for it. Yes, I remember when it was first pointed out to me. The fact I was, and continue to be, in environments where I learn these things probably at least for me correlates to the direction of my career.

My experience is exactly the opposite. Tabs are variable when viewed with other editors. Almost every place I have worked in the last 30 years has forbidden their use. I have a variety of rc and config files that I use to customize whatever editor a customer or employer uses.

The one place that insisted on tabs failed. OK, you win. My editor indents my code automatically. I only need to use backspace to delete indentation. And there is the problem with spaces — with tabs you only need to press backspace once in most editors and it just works. Did you check age? Salary may be different because one style was popular at a different point in history, so a different generation adopted it.

If you need to further align code like lining up equal signs you would just use spaces here, no tabs or mixture of tabs and spaces. This way the code will always carry both the indentation and further alignment properly between editors, and has the added benefits of user defined tab widths and slightly smaller file sizes. Code blocks unfortunately lose spaces in Disqus, but in your editor try: if something A long explanation other thing on these lines.

Mixing TABs ans spaces. I use TABs, and my comments are either single line or stay below or above. Multiline side comments are totally ugly! I just found out that Mr John Daring Fireball uses tabs and that just makes me seriously happy that I use spaces. I think you misunderstand the question. As far as I can see tabs use one character code wheras 4 spaces use 4.

So a tabbed file will be much smaller than a non tabbed file, so tabs rule. You can have blocks of code be much deeper than that I once had a for loop end up seven indents deep. If you typed code all day, every day, for ten years, you might save a couple of megabytes by using tabs over spaces. Text files are not that large compared to say, image files, or video files. I have been coding for years but I find it easier to press the tab key rather than the space key four times.

Spaces look the same size with a fixed-width font no matter what program or page you view the code on. This exactly. There is no standard tab width, which causes all of your carefully aligned code to look horrible if it is using both tabs and spaces.

Tabs were invented to try to trim a few characters for files sent over the phone line. Not relevant anymore. Someone using tabs for indent will never mix tabs and spaces. Just like someone using spaces for indent will never mix tabs and spaces. All the time. And it is a constant source of frustration for people who want to be able to read the pull request but everything is out of alignment.

It happened only in projects where other problems were even bigger, i. In such teams, spaces vs tabs are the least of your concerns. If you manually type each space, if your preferences say tabs for indentation, the spaces will be replaced with tabs in save. The mix only happens if your indent is already wrong.

You got me thinking about a particular situation, however, where tabs are indeed capable to get you to mix tabs and spaces — when your coding style prescribes ASCII art. Say your coding standard says that when you break up long parameter lists you have to align the second and subsequent lines of parameters to after the opening parenthesis of the method declaration.

This makes sense. People who do not use spaces predominantly give a clue that they have used various tools to read the code and admit that a tab in code makes the code look bad. How bad and when? This means that they have used multiple tools in different environments is which is not just years of experience but exposure and adaptability to many tools. Such developers care about the code being written. It can be the perfection about the code that is maintainable, the code that is concise and expressive, the code to use nice design patterns or anything that will help manage well.

When one goes an extra mile about not just working code but manageable code, it also means that they are better ones than their counterparts with similar experience who just write some code but not love code. The love part here is what makes more money. Not to humiliate but true. You should have used a better word. I agree that word perfectionist lost its solely positive meaning and now days has more negative tone than positive.

It would be better to say that I consistently drive for consistency in the sake of code quality as well its maintenability, readability and supportability. Also I use tabs. I beg to differ. I think devs who use spaces are more about the code looking good for everyone, rather than just looking good for the original developer.

And I have a lot of experience. I can surely agree, though, that there are developers who use spaces because they care about the code. That merely suggest you need a lot more experience with different people in different environments.

If what you state was consistently true, it would very likely offset the odd correlation the article is about. Which they may not even notice, just somehow observe the tab guys as worse or more problematic developers in general. Four shall be the number thou shalt count, and the number of the counting shall be four. Five shalt thou not count, neither count thou three, excepting that thou then proceed to four. Companies ought to start paying by the keystroke.

You prefer 4 spaces, Bob prefers 2, Joe prefers 8. If only it worked like that. So then you ask your IDE to convert all the spaces to tab or vice versa and now you inject all these changes into the file diff. Of those, I think I hated 8 the most. I will agree that 4 seems to be the sweet spot — enough to be visually distinctive but not so much that the code extends beyond the right margin.

The sample is very, very, very small to the point of having zero meaning. And the only point is the usual one when reading the interpretation of any statistic data: beware. An argument that developers who answered the survey are not representative would be relevant. Is there any reason to believe that the SO userbase is representative? Yup, this can also be generalised to every survey of anything ever. This is a case where SO is probably a relatively solid survey.

Higher self-confidence, regardless of merit, usually translates to higher salaries. Case in point only if the confidence is regardless of merit, which is exactly what I was arguing against. Neither is default, you need an equal amount of confidence to use either. I see individuals on both sides in that discussion having a similar strange feeling of superiority.

Indentation is spaces by default on most editors. Blows your whole argument out the water, eh? And they eschew inserting those semicolons by such gauche methods as actually touching a key , preferring to use butterflies instead. Using tabs to indent and align code is like trying to use a hammer to clean your windshield. Lets say you have a function with a lot of parameters. Simply not acceptable. Tabs clearly suck at the latter.

They are, however, better than spaces at indentation. Indentation is what they are the character for, with no other purpose. But let me also say that consistency in style is far more important than which style is actually used. It just so happens quite a few people believe this is a convenient way to indent code. Ideally your functions should not have that many arguments that this becomes necessary. Why is that a problem? If the team shares the same coding conventions, the code will be easier to read and maintain by the team as a whole.

It also means that code that looks properly aligned by someone who uses two-space tabs may look like crap for the guy who uses 8-space tabs or visa versa. In the real world, people who use tabs for indenting will also sometimes use tabs for alignment. Emphasis mine. THIS, right there, is the problem in a nutshell.

In theory , tabs are better than spaces because everyone can set them to their preferred level of indentation, and everyone knows how to use them correctly tabs ONLY for indentation, then spaces for any alignment you want to do after the indentation level. In practice , tabs are worse than spaces because everyone can set them to their preferred level of indentation, and not everyone who knows how to use them correctly will actually use them correctly, alas. You rename foo and all your nice formatting goes out the window.

If you absolutely have to align, do this:. If you are using decent tools, the rename refactoring will automatically realign your parameters. I just checked with IntelliJ, though, and it indeed does. So you are right, decent tools and proper configuration for the win! Unfortunately for tab-lovers like myself, IntelliJ supports your original argument. Instead it uses as many tabs as possible so things get unaligned for a different tab length. I have been using those doggone tabs for 10 years!!

Bye, bye tabs. Spaces, here I come!!! This is sort of the answer I wanted to find on here. Also, StackOverflow itself skews results because it has a certain demographic. Yeah, so Joe maps his tabs to spaces, and sets his IDE tab width to 4 spaces. He changes this in his IDE. If only they knew how to use tabs properly, this would never have happened!

It can go the other way. Joe uses two-space tabs. His code looks all nice and pretty and readable. There are a few odd sections that need to be indented 12 characters over so he uses six tabs. Bob comes along and has an eight-space tab.

Suddenly all that code that needed to be indented 12 characters is now indented 48characters, and looks like crap because half of the code is beyond the right margin. For that reason, tabs are IMHO a less practical choice unless you work in a relatively closed ecosystem. Use the right tool. Strictly speaking, causal inference is impossible in cross-sectional data because they violate the principle of temporality, i.

Thus, we cannot use causal language in describing this estimate. Nevertheless, even if we were willing to assume that our data would have remained unchanged had this been a prospective study which is not unreasonable for variables such as country of origin , after having had a look at the raw data, it would take a while to turn this dataset into a readily analyzable object.

The main issue would be the huge amount of missing outcome data, some of which is probably missing at random, some of which is most probably not. After dealing with these, the easiest approach would be to use principal components analysis to identify components of interest, use them to calculate propensity scores i.

There are more interesting approaches as well e. The majority of tab users must be from regions where the comma and period are reversed in numerical values. The above post used median, not average B. The effect was entirely clear only within the US, as shown in the second graph above. It looks apparent to me that the effect is there in all countries shown, not just the US.

Just a little humor. It is just humorous how many serious responses there are to this—it needs a lighter side. I guess the most common is a space as the separator and a dot or a comma for the decimal, depending on country. There must be a correlation between size and number of thumbs each coder has vs the size and number of left little fingers.

Misleading hypothesis. Considering that the use of tabs is highly editor dependent as well as platform dependent, I seriously doubt that it is tabs vs. IMHO, it is far more likely that a premium is being paid for environments where tabs are not generally used. Plotting individual technologies individually would be far more clarifying e. A tab is just a byte in the code. You set your editor to display a tab as a certain width of characters.

If you move to another IDE, just change your default settings there to your liking as we all do, who likes to be stuck with stock layout and colours?! Except for Spacial Fridays, then we can use spaces. Tabs came first as the best way to indent. We laughed at them when they did it on typewriters, we laughed louder when they did it on word processed documents, now we cry when they do it in their IDE. The horse and carriage is the best way to travel, since it came first.

Comparing two different things makes no sense and derails the discussion. Many things come first, we learn from them, and we adapt. In that situation it becomes more a reflection of the company, i. Explaining the result is easy: If someone is going to force me to use spaces, they better be paying well.

If that were the case, then developers should be able to switch from tabs to spaces and see their salary increase good luck with that! I think the cause is somewhat reversed. I strongly believe that people who use — and fight for — spaces are young and proud, quick to respond when you ask their salaries.

Speaking generally of course. They also likely to use a modern framework like PHPStorm, or a freshly invented editor like Atom, they use Git for version control, share their work on github or other communities, also format their code with autoformatters — these things typically cause spaces. Yes they earn more.

One-man companies, freelancers, not speaking about their salaries or not having a consistent value per month. Tabs have added value when you code but are somewhat annoying when you git often, or when others see your code in a viewer with 8 as default tab size. Erm, whut? So many BS. They earn less. Freshly invented editor Atom tries to detect which mode is used in the file we edit and sticks to it. Also modern editors respect. I use tabs and I have no problem telling my salary. And I earn more than most of other developers in my country.

Read again. Team players with uni degrees do earn more. Yes, practically all editors can do this trick. Missed the point. Yes they do. Not git itself, of course, but people with different indenting habits, working together. Some clients stick to the idea that whitespace changes are changes. Interesting idea but no. So what. Everybody is a team player. Uni degrees does say literally nothing about whether the individial is young or uses spaces. Young people earn less, because they are not that skilled yet professionally.

The problems is different indenting habits, not using the tabs. If the tabs are used and enforced in the whole project, there is no problem at all. If the spaces are used but not enforced, you can get into the problem as well. White Theology Outing Supremacy in Modernity. Front Matter Pages i-xii. Pages Front Matter Pages White Boy in the Ghetto.

The Crisis of Race in the New Millennium. Black Performance. White Posture. White Passage and Black Pedagogy.

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Four days after Floyd's death, on May 29, demonstrators shut down several downtown Chicago streets. The next day, Chicago protests escalated; one person died and six others were shot. A dozen police officers were injured. These protests "evolved into criminal conduct" as Chicago Mayor Lori Lightfoot put it and protesters and looters extensively damaged businesses on Michigan Avenue.

The next day, Mayor Lightfoot asked the Illinois Governor to summon the National Guard to Chicago for the first time in fifty-two years. The last time was during the riots. And a homicide spike ignited. On May 31, eighteen people were murdered and dozens more were shot in Chicago, making it the single most violent day in six decades.

Chicago's emergency center received 65, calls for all types of service—50, more than on a usual day. The homicide explosion in Chicago does not appear to follow the more gradual trends, such as modestly changing social mobility patterns linked to the pandemic. This explosive spike in homicides is also evident in other cities. Depicted below is Philadelphia's homicide data for Here again, an explosive spike at the end of May is evident, although there are also other increases visible in the Philadelphia data which is the proverbial "noise" in data that always attends research of this type.

Similar patterns can be observed in data for the first cousin to homicides—shootings. Here is Minneapolis shooting data for the relevant period:. If changes due to the pandemic do not explain the nation's explosive homicide spike, what does? The Rosenfeld report readily acknowledges the other leading hypothesis: That following George Floyd's death at the hands of Minneapolis police on May 25, , anti-police protests led to a decline in policing.

This hypothesis is what I and others have called a "Minneapolis Effect" —that is, as police protests spread around the country, police had to be redeployed from their normal duties to help manage the protests. And, more expansively, even following the protests, "proactive policing" declined. Measuring a decline in proactive policing is difficult. Not all police agencies report good data on policing.

And there isn't a single measure of proactive policing that captures all varieties of police work. But it is possible to get some general sense of changes in policing in Important measures of proactive policing generally show a post-protest decline. For example, the chart below depicts total arrests by the Chicago Police Department. As can be seen, in mid-March the pandemic's onset triggered a sharp decline in arrests.

Then, beginning in April, arrests climbed toward pre-pandemic levels. But at the end of May, that return to normalcy was interrupted and arrests plummeted, never to again regain traditional levels. Here's another similar trend line showing sharp reductions in policing at the end of May, this one depicting street stops by the Los Angeles Police Department:. Here again, LAPD activity as measured by total persons stopped dropped below normal levels depicted in the grey line beginning around mid-March.

During April stops returned to expected levels, equaling normal levels just before the last week in May. But then, suddenly, pedestrian stops declined well below normal levels, where they have remained ever since. Once last graph will show a similar trend line—this one for traffic stops in Philadelphia:. Here again, the pandemic-induced decline in stops appears in mid-March, followed by a return toward normal levels in April and most of May—only to see a steep drop to well below normal levels after the start of anti-police protests.

And this drop coincides exactly with the onset of the Great Homicide Spike. Against this backdrop, a "de-policing" explanation readily emerges as the triggering event for the sudden increase in homicides in late May. In the wake of the antipolice protests following George Floyd's death in late May, less proactive policing occurred.

For example, police had to be redeployed to manage the protests, diverting them from antigun patrols and other activities that deter the carrying of illegal firearms. And even after the protests began to wane, police pulled back from proactive policing—that is, from self-initiated policing methods designed to reduce crime by using preventive strategies, such as street stops or antigun patrols.

In addition, beginning at the same time, law enforcement capabilities were diminished by reduced funding and other setbacks such as increased retirements due to demoralization , again due to the anti-police protests. The consequence of reducing law enforcement activity directed against gun violence has been, perhaps unsurprisingly, an increase in gun violence.

Since I articulated my "Minneapolis Effect" theory several months ago, an important new paper had been published supporting my conclusions. Also supporting the de-policing theory is the seemingly puzzling pattern of crime trends in , developed in today's Rosenfeld report. The Great Homicide Spike looks eerily similar to the pattern of crime increases during the Chicago homicide spike. And, as a consequence of that agreement, homicides and shootings dramatically increased, while most other crimes did not.

The Chicago pattern may thus provide a key for unlocking an answer to why rates for some crimes spiked in the U. As the Chicago homicide spike demonstrates, proactive policing e. When stop-and-frisks plummeted in Chicago in , gun violence spiked but not other crime categories.

So, too, in the summer of , as proactive policing declined across the country, gun violence spiked but not other crime categories. Today's new report about crime trends acknowledges the possibility of de-policing—as does an earlier paper by Rosenfeld. But today's report seemingly discounts the issue, noting that "the connection between police violence, protects and social unrest, and heightened community violence remains uncertain.

At some level, this point is true. Social science research is often unable to reach definitive conclusions. But the issue for policy makers today is how to respond to the dramatic homicide spike—and policymakers do not have the luxury of waiting until perfect knowledge exists. To my mind, the major flaw in today's Rosenfeld report is its concluding section, which makes policy recommendations.

The section calls for "bold action" to respond to rising homicide rates, But rather than presenting a bold response, the reports offers three anodyne recommendations—recommendations that unfortunately seem to steer clear of directly addressing de-policing issues. The first recommendation calls for "subduing the coronavirus pandemic.

But for reasons explained above, the pandemic does not appear to be the main cause of the homicide spike and thus subduing it will not address most of the problem. The Rosenfeld report's second recommendation is "improving the fairness and legitimacy of the justice system in general, and policing in particular.

Indeed, I doubt anyone would disagree with improving the "legitimacy" of our criminal justice system in general. But, again, this proposal does not provide helpful guidance to policymakers seeking to respond immediately to the sharp increase in homicides that has manifested over the last seven months.

Issues surrounding "legitimacy" of the system ebb and flow in long term cycles that seem unrelated to the current spike. The final recommendation is that "responses to record-breaking increases in homicide must not wait. Policymakers can and should address the pandemic, police legitimacy, and violent crime simultaneously.

A large body of rigorous empirical evidence demonstrates that violent crime can be addressed using strategies that are available now and do not require significant budgetary outlays, new legislation, or deep systemic reforms. But that book, written in before the pandemic, offers a series of proposals designed to reduce homicides generally, such as by expanding social services and anti-violence programs.

To be sure, preventing homicides is obviously a good thing. But general approaches obviously are not targeted to a specific problem that sudden arose during the last half of The Rosenfeld report fails to explain clearly what countermeasures would be effective in specifically combating the nation's recent homicide spike. Indeed, one interesting point is that Abt's book discusses the importance of "hot spot" policing, explaining that "[w]hether a hot person carries a hot gun in a hot spot depends on, among other things, supply and demand.

To reduce the demand for illegal firearms among dangerous people in dangerous places, the risk of apprehension must be high. Thus, the Rosenfeld report seems to be suggesting sub silencio that we need more "hot spot" policing—although that point is not specifically mentioned. I wish the Rosenfeld report had more pointedly called for expanded proactive policing, as that seems to be the clear and immediate need in this country.

While today's report is unduly limited in its recommendations, I hope that the report will lead to further research on last year's homicide spike. Given the wealth of data that are available, time series regression analysis should be able to shed further light on what caused such a dramatic increase in homicides over such a short period of time. To be sure, time series analysis of events in will be difficult, given that COVID has disrupted so many aspects of American society—including criminal justice.

But difficult does not mean impossible. Research should be able to disentangle the competing effects of the various events in , allowing policymakers to have a better understanding of why homicides sharply increased last year. While highlighting these points of possible disagreement with today's report, I want to conclude by emphasizing a point of strong agreement between me and the Rosenfeld et al. The new report concludes that the Great Homicide Spike led to 1, more deaths in the sample of 34 cities than in the year before.

In its last sentence, the report finishes with the plea that "[w]ith so many lives at stake, the time to act is now. I wholeheartedly agree—and have argued in my earlier paper for immediate responses to spiking homicide rates.

It is time to act now, as many lives are, indeed, at stake—disproportionately the lives of victims who are of color, residents of inner cities, and impoverished. The website recommended that participants pick up their race bib and bag of goodies on Friday or Saturday to make Sunday morning less stressful. The atmosphere was fun with music blasting and peppy volunteers making sure everyone was happy.

Even though there was a crowd, registration took just 15 minutes. Race Start Time To preface, I am an early bird. Because of the oppressive weather on Saturday, I had no qualms about getting up at 5 a. It was; the excessive heat warning miraculously ended at 6 a.

I was too antsy to wait around until 7 a. Unfortunately, not everyone who lives in my house is as perky as me in the morning. We were out the door and down to the start at the Art Museum by We hung around the finish line festival until around 9 a. It was nice have the rest of the day ahead of us to do as we pleased once we showered , so the early start was much appreciated.

The Crowd A bunch of overly excited teenagers, young parents pushing goggled toddlers in strollers, a few ambitious costumed Buzz Lightyears begging the question: why?! There were waves of 2, runners that started every five to 10 minutes during the hour so we mingled a bit before hopping into a wave that started around Attention race organizers, here is your solution: Inform runners to start in earlier waves and walkers in later ones so no passing of waves occurs at the oh-so-vital color stations.

Time is not the purpose of the Color Run. Looking like a rainbow barfed on you is the purpose of the Color Run. There were no timing chips to tie into shoelaces and I did not even see a clock at the finish line. For a girl me who once ran so many races that racing, and running in general, was no longer fun, I thought this was such a nice change of pace. With the crowds, actually running the course was nearly impossible; however, we saw some smiling faces of runners at the finish who looked like they truly had a blast.

The Color Run website clearly states that walkers are allowed and welcome on the course, so anyone who had planned on running should have considered themselves forewarned. We decided to just go with the flow and went on a leisurely Sunday morning walk with an explosion of color thrown into the mix. It took us around 50 minutes to complete the 3. There was a tent at the finish line with much needed water bottles. Bananas would have been a great snack after the long walk in the heat, but there were none to be found.

Next time, please, Color Run people! There were four color stations along the course, going from pink to blue to orange to yellow. When we went through the color zones, volunteers that were literally caked in their respective colors sprayed colored cornstarch directly at us. I wanted blue so I got a lot of blue. Orange, not so much. Nearing the end of the run, the color stations were turning into one big colored powder cloud akin to a dust storm but a little more pleasant, I would imagine.

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Indeed, without that, I would have to rethink about this. Indeed, I think this whole mess revolves around not using reformatting tools and not understanding that TISA is an option… but whatever. You can use vim editing inside a lot of IDEs nowadays. Best of both worlds? Give it a shot. Newfangled things sometimes are good. I prefer spaces, but naturally one must adapt to the the coding style used in the project, so I am fine begrudgingly with tabs, but what really grinds my gears is when both are mixed — this causes such a horrendous mess….

We cannot do without spaces but we can do without tabs. This clear reasoning removes ambiguity and is a good practice to use this thought in code for all types of things that cause arguments but are not important. With the same reasoning you could eliminate lots of operators and formats from languages, making the remaining operators have more ambiguous, context-dependent meanings. This is obviously not a desirable thing.

We would all do assembly language then by your reasoning. What are you talking about? Contextually, Crockford was arguing about coding style, not about language design, specifically when it comes to tradeoffs of equal functionality that your team decides as a coding style. It was about context which limits scope. However your sentiment averages toward negative which is unbiased if you use an AI.

You are able to change that upward if you want to. You are always correct from your perspective coupled with negative sentiment. Hope that works out for you. Yes it does. You can do anything in assembler so what is the point of any other programming language? By your logic of course…. Well we use tabs for something different than spaces, when we use it for indentation.

By your argument we would all code with 3 symbols as those are the fewest symbols we would need to program. Taken out of context. Douglas was referring to unimportant arguments about code style. If you take it in that context, your argument seems reaching. Maybe being extravagant in your use of bytes reflects an attitude of plenty that becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy in life.

Certified spaces growth hacker. The other confounding variables are exactly the point. No one actually believes that switching from tabs to spaces will gain you a nice raise. Some languages have universal convention for one or the other — for example Python for spaces and Go code for tabs. So Python programmers definitely earn more than Go programmers? Yeah, developers who use space over tabs probably do make more money. Because developers who use tabs get the job done faster, and as such, work less hours!

Almost every modern editor supports soft-tabs; that is, by hitting the TAB key, you insert N space characters. Do you honestly think people actually hit the space multiple times? Everyone just changes the TAB output to X spaces. Try to grasp this concept, apparently it will make you earn more money if you do.

Nobody is hitting the spacebar eight times, people just use tab but render it as spaces. Nobody wastes eight keystrokes for indentation. Us space users use the tab key just like you guys. On what side am I? I prefer spaces for indentation. The only logical answer is that you are in the tabs group, because you are pressing the tab key to indent. Prefer tab key for efficiency, but understand the spaces necessity. Does this data account for the ability to use the tab key to execute spaces?

How would you categorize this group? We got into a heavy debate about this at work, to the point where I made team tabs and spaces shirts. I know nobody who favours hitting the space bar multiple times over hitting tab once. But this would certainly be an interesting hypothesis!

Every modern IDE can be configured for the tab key to enter the proper number of spaces. Dude, get a better editor! Firstly, the file size will be smaller. That has to be the preferred choice. Who would choose to have their files be larger? Secondly, it gives you total flexibility in terms of choosing how big a tab is in your editor. Those who have incredibly nested logic can use 1 or 2 characters. Personally I always choose 4. The thing is, you choose how you want to see it.

The indentation will look the same always. If you want to ensure that people always see it the same, you simply specify in your coding standards that people should always set their indentation level in their editor to 4. The advantage of a tab is that it allows you to choose your visible indent size.

However, varying indent size makes it functionally impossible to enforce column width. Therefore if you have a coding standard with a fixed width, spaces are the appropriate choice for justification. Why would you need to enforce a column width though? Alignment after indentation?

By column width, I meant the total document width. If a document has a column max width, and one person uses two space tabs, and another uses four space tabs, and another uses eight, and they all use a character width, then when one person views the work done by another, then the formatting will look wrong.

Alignments say, for simple ascii images are going to be off too. You want to use spaces in your code? Their code could look messy and take longer to walk through. The main advantage as I see it is that everyone on a project seems the same code. Sometimes a previous version of myself. It solves the multi-programer problem without sacrificing any principles.

I wish more programming languages would supply such tools code formatting normalization. TISA is the best solution. If all developers on your team are using tabs, how would spaces benefit the team or its members? Thus, it can be impossible to distinguish between words separated with a tab and words separated with a single space. Though, I acknowledge that some modern editors will display a symbol for a tab, which solves that problem.

Due to the nature of code, lining things up with one tab setting may look awful in any other tab setting, thus making the code harder to read for some, easier for others. You can make the argument you should never attempt to neatly line up code, but there are sometimes good reasons to do so.

Can you work around all these issues with tabs, or simply live with these edge cases? Yeah, probably. Most people I know who use tabs only use them at the beginning of the line. The correct answer is tabs for indentation, spaces for alignment, and alignment is generally to be discouraged. The problem with spaces for indentation has exactly the same foundation as people are complaining about for tab width: one developer wants to use 2 spaces per indent level, the next wants to use 4.

We can certainly agree that if everyone always uses tabs consistently and everyone always uses the same editor configured in the same way, then tabs will work fine, and even allow people to use different indentation widths.

Once you have a mixture of tabs and spaces, the code will start looking weird for someone, not necessarily you. My favourite example is when you look at code written by tab fans who configure their tab width to say 4 spaces. I mean really, that argument could be applied anywhere where there is any sort of debate on how or what to use — package managers, specific packages, etc.

Or am I missing something? Now, to your question: The thing is, if everyone uses only spaces or only spaces and 8-space tabs, it mostly works everywhere because all editors and viewers understand spaces well, HTML interpreters ignore them unless in pre tag, but… and many viewers also handle 8-space tabs okayish. Now someone figured out that you can use tabs as a sort of system, just like when tabulating data. The benefit is it enables people to configure their favourite tab width.

And some people do that, and THEN we have the problem because suddenly we have non-standard tabs so the file is going to look different to everyone else than the author and people with editors configured like the author. Worse, the code can end up being inconsistent, unnoticed, and then it can garble up completely for other people. The only way to fight that is to start being careful about the tabs. You seem to think that you can standardize everyone to use tabs.

And there are still downsides. My life was simpler when I decided jwz was right and I made my editor not insert 8-space tabs, navigation became much more intuitive. Now this is an argument, mostly against inserting non-standard spacing in text that other people may have to look at. For example, in yaml, you have to use spaces because people with 8 space tabs could be confused with those who use 2 tabs with 4 spaces each. If you colleagues use 2, 4, or 8 space tabs code will not be aligned for everybody.

Only using spaces guarantees it. Readability trumps trying to save bytes. You use tabs at the start of the line and everyone can use whatever tab size they prefer. Especially with the ever-widening gap between how few bytes code requires vs how much bandwidth and storage is available. Uh, no. This is the beauty of tabs. The main advantage of using spaces is that they always display the same way. I know that those who praise tabs use the same exact argument as a disadvantage or rather the point that tab can be displayed according to ones preference but this argument is invalid.

There is plenty of places in which such a setting cannot be set. GitHub has quite narrow, not configurable code view. Tab is displayed as 8 spaces. Especially inconvenient for side-by-side view of a diff. Age is likely to track with salary. The reason spaces are encouraged when training coders has to do with printing on paper. So older developers will have a different habit then newer developers. Readability concerns are valid on screen just as much as on print. Interesting hypothesis.

Never once did I think about the ramifications of printing when thinking about spaces or tabs. Nor can one find a tendency where developers with the same years of experience that used tabs tended to be younger. In general, older employees do have a higher salary floor. However, developers with the same level of experience most likely trained for it around the same time, so they very likely learned the same habits.

If age was a primary factor in the pay gap, I would expect that at the very least, the older languages would stand out in the regression chart. Might be harder to transition to an open source stack because no one has been willing to pay me to work in one, but I am familiar with several. To me it seems like blatant ageism to assume because someone has been in the industry for 20 years they favor or are currently using old languages. That was not my intent, I apologize. To be fair, something like Assembly would probably be more like embedded systems programmers.

So it may already be a disproved hypothesis. Writing this comment made me hate myself. I had a coworker who did essentially this. You can set your editor to automatically translate all tabs to spaces. Sure he will notice. He will likely set his editor to expand tabs to wrong number of spaces, given how many possibilities there are, and all the code will look fugly.

Spaces cause problems when reusing code,. Besides, spaces are generally much more variable than tabs in different fonts, I mean considering you get the whole fixed versus variable width fonts into the argument. I mean I agree with you, copy and paste of code provided you wrote it, trust its author, or at least read it thoroughly is a pretty normal thing to do.

But still, maybe pick a year? What makes you think copying and pasting is wrong? Well, that statement was not meant to insult you. Yes, sometimes we have boilerplate code which we copy as a template, like a default HTML file. But everytime you copy code you risk that you have to fix a bug in that code in two places at a later time.

Copy-pasting is not always bad, but copy-pasting from Stack Overflow day in and day out is a deadly, deadly trap. I copy and paste code all day along. It saves me hours of time. The alternatives are A spend way too much time reinventing the wheel, or B pointlessly retype it all out the exact same. Every time. With great power comes great responsibility, or something like that.

Well, I am not sure if you get my point. I am not against code reuse. I say code reuse is great because it saves a lot of time. I am against duplicating code. So if the code you need exists in a library, use that library. But please do not copy the code from the library, but instead load the library, so that you can easily update it if there comes a better version at a later time.

I say copy and paste as much as humanly possible…. I think we are both agreeing on that. Replace leading space with tabs, or replace leading tabs with space. What is the problem? Oh my, can you imagine? I strongly prefer spaces, but I would rather use tabs than listen to colleagues whack away at their space bars all day. Like really?

Come on guys and gals. I can setup my tabulations to appear like 2 spaces without having it to be two spaces, which would be 2 characters instead of just one, making all my files larger. That applies to almost any IDE for the past 40 years. Kind of an interesting situation with Go.

A Go user might not only program in Go though, and would indicate tabs. But for the purposes of this analysis they still have a set of answers either way for users who also said they use Go. I took a quick look at the data 30 minutes and found the following insights regarding Tabs vs. When you split the group into younger and older programmers not by age but by experience , into the ones with up to 10 years experience Group A: and the ones with more than 10 years Group B: you can see the following:.

As Programmers with up to ten years are not only novice programmers, but the ones with a more modern education, this leads me to the conclusion, that it is the result of a modern programming style which favors tabs. So my conclusion is that space users probably earn more money as they have more experience, but the trend shows that the new generation tends to favor tabs and that there is already a majority of users who use tabs.

You say that space users earn more money as they have more experience, but the chart shows that developers with the same experience makes different amount of money depending on their tabs spaces preferences. You are correct, my conclusion is wrong as I did not mean that they earn more money right now, but that they will earn more money in the future as there will be more tab users with more experience and right now the majority of tab users has less experience.

So my hypothesis is that tab users will not switch their style when they gain experience but that they will stick with their style and that their group will mature over time and make more money by then. I will correct that. I have about 9 years of coding and I am a tabber. My father has been coding for almost 40 years and he is a spacer. You hear him all day… bang bang bang bang on the space bar. I put my money on your hypothesis. Did read, and I recognize the author recognizes that as well as did statistical effort to explore the dat.

Still funny. Spaces is the right answer, no matter what. Most languages are multy-platform. Spaces looks same on any platform and this is not the case for tabs. Just accept it. With spaces though you have different developers who use different numbers for each level of indentation. With tabs one tab is always one level of indentation. The title of this blog is in no way shape or form clickbait. Click bait would be:. Learn how he increased his salary with this one little trick! This is a brilliant study idea, but you should modify your result to only apply to the sampled.

I would have expected better from stackoverflow. There is no reason given in the article to explain why. Correlation is not equal to Causation. Yes, they even say that in their post. They have no idea why it is, it just is.

It says Correlation is not Causation in the conclusion. Add a new question on to the survey for next year asking if developers limit character length of their lines to 80 characters. Then see if this correlates with space-use. They are to be exiled to a horrific world where the only language available is PHP and the only editor is ed.

If it were worse than PHP, they might give up. PHP is just barely viable enough to entice them to keep going, thus prolonging their suffering. Both is not the same as mixed. Using both tabs and spaces is not the same: I use tabs for some languages, and spaces for others. I never mix the two in a single document. At Cratejoy, we use spaces in Python and tabs for Javascript and Less but we never mix tabs and spaces in a file.

I use both tabs and spaces, because I use tabs for some programming languages, and spaces for other languages — but I never mix them: never both in the same document. Mixing tabs and spaces implies using tabs and spaces within the same document and indeed, sometimes on the same line.

I like think most people reading this would see it the opposite way and as a great example of meaningless correlation between what comes down to stylistic preferences in most cases. It is my opinion that the title is the opinion. The data sample is flawed in that his sample was chosen in a way that has a misleading trend that fits the title of the article to make it look like the correlation is the cause, when the statistic says more about his sampling techniques than it does about who gets paid more.

For example, only people who knew about this survey or visited a certain site or subset of sites were surveyed. Er, what sampling techniques are you referring to, exactly? The sample is the set of people who took the Stack Overflow survey and answered that question. More experienced programmers: 1. The linear regression included both programmer experience and tabs vs spaces, so the effect exists even beyond programming experience. So while anyone who prefers spaces to tabs can take code with tabs and instantly convert it to spaces, or make the tab distance equal to two or four, or whatever spaces for readability with a single keypress, someone who prefers two spaces per indent level will have a harder time making code with four spaces per indent level readable to him or her.

Because you are an experienced programmer, you know how to set your IDE to do these tricks, but an inexperienced programmer does not or does not value doing so. The article makes no claims about the technical merits of tabs vs spaces.

It just points out the existence of a correlation. I used to be a strong tab supporter. Want 4 spaces, 6, 8 spaces? Then I joined teams where the 2 were being mixed all over the place. It took me 5 years to realize the importance of this. Are you saying you literally press the space bar for indentation? Haha, of course not. Some using actual tabs, others using spaces.

A tab key gets converted to 4 spaces. So you get space characters from tab keys but that also behave like tabs on backspaces too. This is especially nice for python, my go-to money maker. If you want tabs to look like 4 spaces, you can set that. If 2, you can set that as well. He discovered that was a problem in files that mixed tabs and spaces because how your IDE renders tabs might differ from how many spaces someone inserted. If everybody uses spaces and not tab characters, the file will render the same for everyone.

My hypothesis: Somebody who touts their use of spaces is more likely to exaggerate their reported income. It sounds pretentious. Like, meanwhile, children are dying in africa, stop using your computer and do something about it. If your job is not in health, teaching or food making, you are useless, so you should stop wasting your time. Mah gawd you guys, who cares? If we put this kind of scrutiny on the SO data scientists, imagine what kind of scrutiny we could put on what YOU do all day, such as….

The majority of the devs on the frontier of new languages, and language research, use an editor like vim. To be sure. In 30 years, vi will 71 years old, and vim will be 55 years old. All of us are hoping for better, more functional tools in that timeframe. Everything else happens in another window at a shell prompt. When I need to make anything else more efficient, I update my command-line programs. Well, actually it depends on what you value.

If you want something feature rich, an IDE might be objectively better. If you just want to edit a few lines of source code, the small editor which is just an editor might be objectively better. Yeah right — like we need to memorize a zillion keyboard shortcuts to do the most obvious stuff!! Keeping up with tech is tough as it is, we need our memory for more important stuff. I suggest the ones using spaces might be largely the ones who believe they are better and have higher standards when negotiating a salary.

Which is not necessarily a bad thing. Developers who cannot extrapolate full solutions from limited information. Funny, a few days ago, I would have found unbelievable that someone would actually think of tabs as the tab key. It also bends my mind that some people fail to understand that the ambiguity inherent in using tab characters is the very reason why space characters are strongly preferred by anyone capable of thinking logically.

That ambiguity is a feature of tabs, not a bug. Those of us that like compact code with two space indentation can coexist peacefully with our coworkers that use 4 space tabs. As long as tab characters are in the code it is just a editor setting and both groups can be happy. Even that one weirdo that prefers 8 spaces per tab can do his thing without bothering the rest of us. Fixed it from average to median.

Though the argument still stands either way. The volume of low salary developers who cannot make the distinction brings down the median. Salary aside, I was a tabber for decades. And it was the predominant coding standard at many of my employers and clients. Then one day my friend and colleague Doug Y.

That tiny little piece of wisdom was my Road to Damascus moment. There is a bit of throwback in it. Tabs are faster to type, and IDE replacement is relatively new. Tabs are also a single character, and code files not having to count bytes is also relatively new. There is a lot of lag between the professional world moving past a paradigm, the educational world adopting that change, and the post-change students getting into the workforce. How much relative? VB6 IDE is even smart enough to understand where the level of indentation ends and add only the correct amount of spaces….

I say this from experience both as a student coming out with 30 year out-of-date habits that I had to get rid of, and having trained several recent grads out of their school-taught habits that were based on green-screen limitations. But we are talking about the present and in the present, nobody is required to hit the spacebar 4 times for each indentation level. Even if you are working with such an old language because you can use other editors instead of those IDEs. Contrary to popular belief, you can learn about obsolete things.

My high school was teaching us to use computers on green screen terminals in the late 90s. I also worked as an adjunct professor for a while, and as part of the IT staff for a college, and with IT professors from 5 other universities. As for the present, no one is sitting over your shoulder telling you to change your typing habits. Yes, nobody needs to be over your shoulder telling you to change your typing habits, because it is not needed anymore.

Programmers that get paid more are more likely to be required to use spaces. I have never worked at a large company with a coding standard that requires tabs over spaces. I have used tabs only during the course of my graduation where everything works and looks good. The real world requires you to use spaces. People using tabs work at larger companies and therefore make more money. And of course that was a typo…. Company size seems to have been controlled for though.

So, developers who know the difference and care about the NEXT reader of their code use spaces to preserve their formatting across tabstop changes. Most people in office environments work with a mandated IDE, eliminating the tabstop change question. That said, companies that allow diverse environments or working from personal equipment might pay more but require spaces for that reason. This is all self-reported, yes?

What if the conclusion is spaces developers are just inflating their salaries by 8. I think the survey could have been poorly developed. Those in the beginning of their careers might not understand or even know that the IDE can change the tab key output to spaces, which could explain the lower salary. They tend to only do what they are told. My theory is that creative people tend to earn more and changing the default configurations could have correlation in this data.

Or they could know what the IDE configuration is, but assume the question is about which key they press. Also, there is no technical difference between using the key tab or the key space making it irrelevant for a survey, while there are technical differences between the character tab and the character space such as filesize and indentation of lines of code written in more than one actual text line or languages without a clear indentation pattern like SQL.

The only difference the actual character makes is in display across multiple IDE configurations. And that actually benefits tabs unless someone goes along typing spaces sort of like someone shoving fixed-width objects in the midst of a variable width HTML page. It is treated as a factor in the present and that is what matters for a survey about the present. Like I have nothing better to do all day long than correcting code that starts in columns that are not multiples of 4….

Most IDEs nowadays will have an automatic document formatter. And for those of us not using IDEs — anyone with any technical competence can run a CL linter, autoformater, or bang out our own script in a few minutes to address the issue permanently. Nutarama, must be a really old language, then.

I had this issue in the past. My first code that went on to be compiled and executed with a runtime error was FORTRAN written on paper, which then went to card punchers, who created the card stack, which was then fed into the specialized reader. For maybe 30 lines of code probably less — it was a very long time ago it then produced several tens of printed pages, on special paper used by dot matrix printers.

Sometimes its actually better to use vim or emacs, even if you have to write your own extensions to replace missing IDE functionality. To a large extent, those are IDE configuration issues. Some people must do a lot of their work on a remote server, and use vim, emacs, or similar over the terminal. Others are using less popular languages for which the best working environment is vim or emacs. There may be no IDE, or it may be under developed.

Eventually these languages may get high quality IDE support, but until then…. I forced myself to learn eclipse and now intelliJ. Also, you can consider the long term benefit of the time invested mastering various tools. Languages and IDEs come in and out of fashion, and sometimes evolve quickly. Teachers who emphasize good coding style are more likely to emphasize the use of particular spacing and thus passively suggest using spaces instead of tabs than teachers who do not emphasize good coding style.

Students who had the former teachers will generally have better style, apart from space usage, than students who had the latter teachers. Also, students who had the former teachers are more likely to use spaces than students who had the latter teachers. Students with better style regardless of space usage will earn higher salaries, so a correlation between space usage and salary will appear. Personally, good coding style was a major emphasis in my first computer science Java class.

We were taught to use four spaces to indent each line. I started off using spaces, but later switched to tabs. If I need to submit code with spaces, I will write the code with tabs and then Replace All tabs with four or two or however many space characters and increase the file size , or configure my IDE to do this automatically.

Other than space usage, I am very persistent on style and will fix the style of code I receive before I read or compile it. Look at hiring habits, though. You might be right that it is based on the institution, though. Graduates from well recognized universities or those with good placement programs have a better average salary than others, regardless of the quality of the particular program.

They just want the code to be delivered because the client is waiting for it. My hypothesis: The element of tradition in education plays a role, i. Call it genealogy of mentors. But how many of those space devs are required to use spaces because of code style guides at their respective companies?

Regardless of whether or not they choose to use spaces on their own. Code in Go is autoformatted with tabs by convention, and a large majority of open-source golang code is autoformatted with tabs this way. Or only very few people answered go and spaces, and so the sample size in that specific case is small.

I assume language choice was a multi-select option? Might be interesting to correlate of languages selected rather than treat each individually. And little Space users. Dude did you even read the article? Years of coding does not necessarily track perfectly with age e. That would still rest on the assumption that older developers did not have the tab character available to them.

It being part of the original ASCII set, which goes back to the s, so this is so unlikely as to not be worth mentioning. The best paying companies usually mandate that you should use spaces. The whole spaces and earnings thing is one giant fallacy from the ground up, mixing up the cause and the effect. IME, they mandate it because furniture police. They could as easily mandate using tabs exclusively for indent — a style checker can warn of mixes on commit.

More often than not, very senior developers prefer tabs, not because it adds any stylistic or technical value, not at all because it saves a few bytes on disk, but simply because it makes sense. In a given editor, a tab has always exactly the same width.

It happens to me repeatedly that upon code reorganization the IDE mixes up indentation, and unless I want my whole file reformatted like all javadoc comments messed up I need to fix this manually. Using spaces for indentation is simply a dogma that has caught on among enterprise developers.

Of course, mixing tabs and spaces is plain stupid, but if tabs for indent proponents can do the mix, so can spaces for indent proponents do it. Read the comments a bit more. Many people are actually making that assumption, very seriously. The IDE does it automatically for you.

This is indeed talking about typed spaces. Adaptable tab size does not refer to your keyboard! Text editors can edit any text in the world, in any language, and you can control indentation of your text editor. Considering the comments here, the two of us may be demonstrating the divide. The benefit of space characters is that tab characters adapting to the display preferences of the individual programmer suddenly look weird when one idiot presses the space character a bunch of times instead of using tab.

In an exemplification of the eminent flexibility of tabs, this is easily resolved with a. Then you have to use mixed tabs and spaces, and you will only cause pain for any other developer who tries to edit your work. I specifically set up my IDE to use spaces. It would be utterly braindead to hit the spacebar multiple times at the beginning of each line.

But any modern IDE only requires you to do it once or tab once for each layer of indentation you want. Gonzol, that is the reason why I think the survey may have been poorly developed. The whole point between tabs or spaces is the character and not the key pressed. Basically there are these two arguments:. Having varying lengths of tabbing seems like it would be harder to read. If ever something inside a pair of parenthesis needs to be broken into multiple lines, just break everything instead. If you would need to break and there are no parenthesis yet, just add them.

I prefer to use a brace style which does never need alignment on keywords identifiers. So if you need to break an argument list, everything gets on a new line, and then is just indented with tabs, no side effects. If the style guide does not permit that, indent with tabs according to the current indentation level, and then use spaces to match the length of the non-tab characters in the previous line. CreateNewAddress t city, state, zipcode, t streetaddressline1, t streetaddressline2.

Yes, that is two more lines, but the indentation is unambiguous. Also non of the lines is even remotely approaching the length limit. For the other option, the additional indentation to match the parenthesis only with spaces.

In front of the spaces all the tabs used on the parent line. So effectively:. CreateNewAddress city, state, zipcode, ttt ………………………………………………………streetaddressline1, ttt ………………………………………………………streetaddressline2. Everyone knows what their editor is outputting.

Apparently not considering the number of people saying spaces are slower. And I would expect people without that experience to not be pulling as high of a salary. People making that comment clearly believe the question has to do with what key is being struck, not what the IDE is producing. The slightly more hollow sound of the spacebar hit hard with the knuckle of a thumb several times in rapid succession is easy to tell apart from normal typing.

If your spacing is consistent which, frankly, it should be , then you can change between tabs and spaces arbitrarily with no significant effort. The problem of arcane legacy code is the changing coding conventions of the past developers, not whether they used spaces or tabs. It makes sense they would on average be paid less.

This is true until you hit version control, where tabs and spaces are taken into account by default. Exactly this. Mixed tabs and spaces cause version control issues, and create non-obvious, and impolite indentation issues when multiple devs work on files that contain them. In every IDE I use, shift-tab goes back an indentation level while backspace removes the previous character.

What IDE are you using that overrides backspace to indention level? I have all manner of shortcuts. The difference in salary here might correlate to developers who understand their tools, vs. Configure your editor right and there is no extra time. Also, spaces maintain consistent visual styling across development tools. Code and data are here, try it out! And, dare I say it? I am moderately sure that what one calls it makes no difference to how using tabs at various tabstops vs.

Use an IDE that will display code formatted however you want it and save it formatted according to whatever code style convention is in place. Or use a pre-commit hook to format it. Arguing over tabs vs. But then, if I fork it, and my editor changes the formatting, the merge will overwrite random bits of code all over. Depending on the editor used, tabs get expanded into 4 or 8 spaces typically.

So, tab-indented source code often shows up with unintented indentation — really ugly. I made pessimistic assumptions in order to demonstrate the robustness of your result, not to criticize it. Most people clicked it even knowing it is a clickbait and that is where you win.

Good job. Maybe I was too harsh in using the word clickbait, but the thing is that it was an interesting marketing move to connect salary with some specific polemic topic. But it is a smart way to promote the survey itself. Because it is assuming your typing habits could influence how much you earn.

If you want to know the real reason behind this, you should isolate the money variable and start checking everything else. You tell me why relate money to a typing behaviour is logical. It is not logical. It is marketing. The only logic applied here was that it is an obvious bait for people to click in the article and comment about it. And yes, I was caught by it hehehe. Because many people are just using tabs, and they are not aware of the fact that tabs can be composed from tab characters vs space characters.

I expect groups 1, 2, 4 to answer tabs. Because of not knowledgeable people in group 4, since we can assume not having knowledge about an arbitrary topic statistically decreases the expected wage, tab answer will have a lower average wage. No, tabs are composed of tabs. They are asking what is in your file. As chipoverclock:disqus remarked before me, tabs have to be rendered, spaces do not. This one time I beautifully formatted code in my IDE with tabs, which were the width of 4 spaces in my system.

As soon as I uploaded it on gerrit, its ugliness was pointed out to me and I soon realised that because gerrit was rendering tabs as 8 spaces, none of my secondary indentation had any effect anymore. Do not use tabs to separate pieces of code horizontally to a specific amount. I guess people who have abandoned tabs are the ones who were quicker to realise this than their counterparts in the same experience bracket.

Just for the people reading this, he did not just say yes to a random stranger: I am not a troll, I am his girlfriend. Leading whitespace tabs, internal line whitespace spaces, this keeps your formatting and allows your editor to size the tabs how ever it is configured.

And is a complete PITA for anyone else to work on ever. Only do this if you live in a silo, and have no Github account. Not with an. Every project has its own requirements, this is just one of those. Some projects may use tabs and some projects spaces, being able to manage either is more important.

If I had to choose it would be leading tabs, allowing display choice for each developer. If I have a multi-line comment to the right of two lines of code i. Not to mention the PITA of changing your tab stops on all your different tools. Thou shall not have a multiline comment to the right of lines of code. Or stop all this commenting trend, let the code speak by itself in freedom and glory! If you follow these rules, you will be able to: — use tabs or spaces and nobody would care — change tab size as you like, for better reading without beeaking indentation — convert tabs to spaces and viceversa without problems.

Jokes apart, code should be formatted in such a way that it really would not matter even if you edited it with non-fixed size fonts. As for where they go, comments should go where they make the code most readable. Making readability a second priority to solving technical issues that arise because you want to use tabs instead of spaces is utterly misguided, IMHO. Sincerely I think that someone that uses spaces because are more portable should comment in a portable way too.

And usually the main thing driving them to this mistaken idea is their lack of experience. Well, have fun with that. At least there is no minus button here! I agree with you that there are no fixed rules and I totally agree with you that assembly does require this kind of commenting, and yes, no tabs there. For the remaining Peace and love. Tabs as leading white space only, all other alignment spaces.

Most editors allow you to set how wide a tab is, 2, 4, 8. Any thing else would be multiple lines with single line comments. Note that the tabs are not a fixed width themselves; with a tab stop at column 5, a tab character in column three is replaced by two spaces when rendered in a fixed font, whereas a tab character at column 2 is replaced by three spaces. And therein lies the issue.

Consider two lines: Two tabs, two printing characters, six spaces, two printing characters Three tabs, two printing characters, two spaces, two printing characters. With tab stops set at every fourth column, the second set of printing characters lines up on column With tab stops set at every second column, the second set of printing characters starts at column 13 on the first line and column 11 on the second line. In your example I see where adjusting tab width could misalign items, but your example is trying to align internal line items across two lines that have different leading whitespace indents.

This seems like arbitrary alignment and ignores the natural grouping that the indent suggests, where I believe only aligning items within their indent groups is reasonable to support. You could change the third tab on the second line to spaces, which in itself suggests it is being aligned to the first line, I do this sometimes, however, I can see an issue where tools that modify leading whitespace from tabs to spaces or spaces to tabs might modify those spaces as well if they happen to match the current tab width.

Are you saying that those apparently incompetent programmers who use tabs are all developing under notepad? He says straight out that code does not become better by using spaces nor worse by using tabs. I prefer spaces over tabs. Most editors convert the Tab to spaces, so developers basically indent pressing the Tab, but that just creates e.

No one is bashing the spacebar. So if I was asked what do I use — spaces or Tabs I would be confused, and I guess a lot of people did answer spaces because the end result is space indented but they do use tab to do it. You hit enter and it will go to the right level. I think any language that requires tabs is not part of the discussion. They reward the sellers who could sell a product that is still not finished and then make us do extra work because the product was already sold.

This is it. Anyone who knows their tools pretty quickly figures out how to make tab insert two spaces. Anyone who operates in a team pretty quickly figures out that tabs help other people to read their code, and cause fewer issues with source control. Yeah, but that knowledge is generally due to somebody pointing it out and then going looking for it. Yes, I remember when it was first pointed out to me.

The fact I was, and continue to be, in environments where I learn these things probably at least for me correlates to the direction of my career. My experience is exactly the opposite. Tabs are variable when viewed with other editors. Almost every place I have worked in the last 30 years has forbidden their use. I have a variety of rc and config files that I use to customize whatever editor a customer or employer uses.

The one place that insisted on tabs failed. OK, you win. My editor indents my code automatically. I only need to use backspace to delete indentation. And there is the problem with spaces — with tabs you only need to press backspace once in most editors and it just works. Did you check age? Salary may be different because one style was popular at a different point in history, so a different generation adopted it.

If you need to further align code like lining up equal signs you would just use spaces here, no tabs or mixture of tabs and spaces. This way the code will always carry both the indentation and further alignment properly between editors, and has the added benefits of user defined tab widths and slightly smaller file sizes. Code blocks unfortunately lose spaces in Disqus, but in your editor try: if something A long explanation other thing on these lines.

Mixing TABs ans spaces. I use TABs, and my comments are either single line or stay below or above. Multiline side comments are totally ugly! I just found out that Mr John Daring Fireball uses tabs and that just makes me seriously happy that I use spaces. I think you misunderstand the question. White Posture. White Passage and Black Pedagogy. Back Matter Pages About this book Introduction White Theology re-examines white race privilege throughout history and its relationship to black theology. James W.

Perkinson articulates a white theology of responsibility responding to the claims of James Cone and other black scholars that serious engagement with history and culture must be at the heart of any American projection of integrity or "salvation" in the modern period. Perkinson interweaves autobiography and postcolonial analysis, history, and phenomenology to explore white supremacy and the future of religious studies.

This is an essential and groundbreaking book for courses in religious studies, African American studies, and theology. Buy options.

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